When Lady Jessica replaced the old reverend mother in the movie, wouldn't that mean that the Sisterhood knew of the vast numbers of Fremen on Dune and no one else did?
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Portland
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Re: Those damned witches and the Fremen
Wed, June 21, 2006 - 9:11 PMI didn't see the second movie, however, in the book she didn't speak to the Sisterhood for quite some time after she was installed as the new Freman Reverand Mother, so the Sisterhood wouldn't have known about the number of Fremen. Not for years. If she did get a note out to them, it is never discussed in the book. Gaius Helen Mohiam learns of the Freman numbers when Paul attacks the Emperor, same as everyone else.
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Re: Those damned witches and the Fremen
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 4:35 PMThe Fremen's Reverend Mother was part of an offshoot of the Bene Geserit. They had become more fremen than not and no longer communicated with the sisterhood.
Brian Herbert's series of prequels goes into it a bit. The Sisterhood spent some time seeding myth among various peoples concerning the Kwisatz Haderach (spelling?) but they lost track of the women that went to Dune. Which explains why they didn't like the place much and since the witches have such a convoluted hierarchy only a handful of women might have knowledge of it and of that handful even less would have the skill to find the memories necessary among all the shared memories from those that passed on. -
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Re: Those damned witches and the Fremen
Fri, June 23, 2006 - 2:21 AMLady Jessica was also the only known Bene Gesserit to disobey her orders regarding her offspring - chosing to birth a boy (instead of the girl that was to breed with the Harkonnen heir Feyd, if memory serves).
This seems like an extreme rebellion considering the possible effect on a breeding program stretching over ninety generations! Thus, even before she was more than a servant of the sisterhood, she was following her own vision.
In fact her ascension to full power was a coup, a forced takeover made possible by the combined powers of herself, her children, and the Freman uprising. -
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Re: Those damned witches and the Fremen
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 11:20 AMeither way, the point is somewhat moot. The Bene Gesserit may very well have been quite aware of the size and scope of the Fremen people. The BG were NOT concerned with the political strife going on in the galaxy any further than how to stay a few steps in front of it and maintain the breeding plan. The Fremen being larger than the Emperor or any of the houses in the Landsrad had so far gagued would only register as yet another piece of information in their possesion that confirms their superiority for having observed and cataloged it.
Conversely, one would theorize that the Mentats should have been able to do extended projections and arrive at a mathematical conclusion asserting the Fremen were larger than anyone had previously suspected. The data was all there to be interpurted, and the only group that the Fremen were consistently bribing to stay quiet was CHOAM.......and since the Bene Gesserit and Mentats had infiltrated CHOAM, there is little reason to believe either group was ignorant of the Fremen's true numbers, they just hads different goals and motivations that such knowledge did not hinder so there was little incentive on either side to come clean with the knowledge. In fact keeping it a secret maintains the Fremen's status as a potential lever with which to unseat the Emperor and possibly the Guild.....a fact both the Mentats and BG would have been well aware of also -
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Re: Those damned witches and the Fremen
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 11:56 AMThe Freeman were not only overlooked by their numbers, but by their relevance as well. Shadam IV thought them only as little more than vermin to be eliminated, of course this position was empasised by the Harkonen controll of Dune. Shadam IV was obviously being fed false information, the Beast Raban was having dificulty dealing with the "isignifigant" Freeman.
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